tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post2382962251686175689..comments2023-10-23T09:51:37.441-05:00Comments on Blog of Pro-Porn Activism: The Price of Pleasure Deconstructed - Part OneRenegade Evolutionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17905949172886730262noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-24869132954055460732013-05-04T23:00:45.675-05:002013-05-04T23:00:45.675-05:00I just read this whole thing and very much enjoyed...I just read this whole thing and very much enjoyed it. It's a perspective that is all too often ignored. I came here because I almost got fooled into watching this 'documentary.' Then I did a cursory bit a research and realized what trash it was going to be, and what they were going to try to subject me to. I have no desire to watch 'virtual child pornography' under any circumstances, and find it reprehensible they would take something that vile and try to tie it to the legitimate porn industry. It says a LOT about the people that try to say they're the good guys.<br /><br />BUT on the plus side, this led me to also discover Renegade's blog and I love it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-31473154800434282752011-10-01T21:36:09.131-05:002011-10-01T21:36:09.131-05:00And for the record...if it did come with an obviou...And for the record...if it did come with an obvious spam link, it would have been nuked into pixellate Hell.<br /><br /><br />AnthonyAnthony Kennersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103420620416144653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-30708868561393105522011-10-01T21:34:08.108-05:002011-10-01T21:34:08.108-05:00Ernest:
It could have been a spambot...I get a lo...Ernest:<br /><br />It could have been a spambot...I get a lot of this over at my own blog, too. But, usually they come loaded with the spam link included.<br /><br />Kind of defeats the purpose to give an artificial compliment without a bait to hook people with, ehh??<br /><br /><br />AnthonyAnthony Kennersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103420620416144653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-11899169421332733612011-10-01T21:30:37.929-05:002011-10-01T21:30:37.929-05:00Hi Trinity,
Nice to hear form you.
It could easi...Hi Trinity,<br /><br />Nice to hear form you.<br /><br />It could easily have been a spambot. I'm pretty thick when it comes to things like that.<br /><br />Did wonder why this old thread suddenly came back to life. Suppose maybe I have an answer, even if it's not the one I would have preferred.Ernest Greenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-4898376709779762482011-10-01T21:25:58.242-05:002011-10-01T21:25:58.242-05:00Trinity:
Maybe so...but at least it wasn't se...Trinity:<br /><br />Maybe so...but at least it wasn't selling anything.<br /><br />BTW...good to know you are still alive and well and still browsing us.<br /><br /><br />AnthonyAnthony Kennersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00103420620416144653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-4051775181891495262011-10-01T21:23:29.916-05:002011-10-01T21:23:29.916-05:00Ernest, I suspect that's a spambot.Ernest, I suspect that's a spambot.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-25937515175990976252011-10-01T21:04:56.152-05:002011-10-01T21:04:56.152-05:00Glad you liked it. Pleased that it's still bei...Glad you liked it. Pleased that it's still being read.Ernest Greenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-57998915648381625932011-10-01T11:39:41.651-05:002011-10-01T11:39:41.651-05:00wonderul post... just passing through and i came a...wonderul post... just passing through and i came across this thread :) Kudosalexishttp://onehotnight.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-72125888490537663952010-09-22T10:26:02.032-05:002010-09-22T10:26:02.032-05:00Not many arguments that hit the heart of the probl...Not many arguments that hit the heart of the problem in your article. I'm reading to take a position in this debate. ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-82947197219842498162009-01-25T16:45:00.000-06:002009-01-25T16:45:00.000-06:00Forgot to add, other than that, what Trinity said....Forgot to add, other than that, what Trinity said.iacbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267608319896053702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-74195730416665039292009-01-25T16:44:00.000-06:002009-01-25T16:44:00.000-06:00"This may not be the place to ask, but all of you ...<I>"This may not be the place to ask, but all of you seem like articulate objective individuals who know a lot about pornography. I'm a 20-something male college student. I have a girlfriend, I do normal college sorts of things. Currently, I am a handsome and worthy suitor, but when I was young, I was picked on a lot for being scrawny, bookish, and weird. Being a social outcast, I took very easily to pornography - first, late-night scrambled playboy with my friends in the 6th grade, and now to whatever is free and mildly kinky, "strawberry vanilla" as opposed to just "vanilla," as it were.<BR/><BR/>This would be fine, but I am undergoing a strange conflict where I developed a strong dependency upon pornography as an artificial source of sexual love, and now I'm a bit of an emotional island. I have trouble relating to women sexually, and I am drawn to pornography regardless of whether I am in a relationship or not. This has caused problems in one relationship, rightfully so, but now I wonder: Am I wrong to like pornography? Or am I just in need of people who understand it and what it has done to my emotional systems over the past decade? Am I addicted to pornography only insofar as other people around me are not? Is it a legitimate interest, and could I just be a closet kink? If yes, is that because of my early exposure to pornography and how it reset the gain on my emotions?"</I><BR/><BR/>So much to address here I don't even know where to begin. First, it doesn't sound like there's anything "wrong" with you per se, though, obviously, I don't know the specifics of your situation. One thing I can say is that looking at porn, even a lot of it, is not a byproduct of your being maladjusted, etc. First, most "normal" teenage guys, even ones that are "successful" with women (or men) are probably looking at more than a little porn too. Also, I'd say feeling like an outcast and maladjusted at that age is so widespread that I'd go so far as to call that the rule rather than the exception.<BR/><BR/>The other thing you need to realize is that even while you are in a partnered sexual relationship, you will have a fantasy and masturbation life of your own. The idea that once you're in a monogamous relationship that you stop masturbating and that all of your sexual fantasies are directed exclusively to your partner is a myth, and a very harmful myth at that. Porn use, generally speaking, is just an extension of one's solo sexual life, and if you have that in balance with your relationship sexuality, then really there shouldn't be a problem there. If the two aren't in balance – say you prefer masturbating to porn to sex with your partner, then there's a problem. If that's the case, the problem might be with the relationship itself – you might be with somebody who you're just not that into physically or aren't sexually compatible with, in which case I simply recommend sparing both partners a lot of heartache and call it off. Or, maybe, you're one of those rare "porn addicts" or "masturbation addicts" that prefers images and fantasy to partnered sex. I think the latter case is pretty rare, though the media tends to blow this out of proportion and make it sound like anybody who gets off on explicit sexual imagery is on the slippery slope to a major addiction. <BR/><BR/>Finally, and this is probably the main problem in terms of porn and relationships, is that partners often have very different beliefs when it comes to porn, monogamy, and what constitutes cheating in a relationship. And that comes down to basic communication, and I think that conversation is something that needs to take place very early in a relationship. Some people have fundamental moral objections about porn and, if you're an active porn viewer, a relationship with somebody like that is probably not going to work out unless one partner basically "converts" the other to their value system. (And, personally, I'm not a big fan of trying to "change" people in the context of a relationship, which is easily something that can become controlling or even abusive.) Another thorny issue is how one feels about monogamy – attitudes toward it run from people who have completely open relationships to those that want total fidelity from their partners to various "grey" areas like "<A HREF="http://nymag.com/lifestyle/sex/annual/2005/15063/" REL="nofollow">New Monogamy</A>" or those where a partner can't have other sexual relationships, but can looking at porn or going to strip clubs isn't cheating. Wherever you fall out on what kind of values you have around this issue, you and your partner need to be on the same page about it and not simply assume the other shares your values.<BR/><BR/>The thing to remember about porn is that it often shows a very stylized and idealized kind of sexuality and body types and that in many cases is very different from what most people actually look like or what might constitute good sex for most people. As is pointed out quite often, the function of most porn is sexual entertainment rather than sexual education (though there's a small subset devoted to the latter).<BR/><BR/><I>"If I want to thoughtfully and respectfully explore kink in a safe way, are there resources? Or do I just hope that I meet someone who has the same sexual tendencies as myself - an unlikely occurrence. Is there a lingo that exists to let one person know they are in the presence of someone who's into kink, kind of like there was amongst homosexuals in the violently homophobic early days?"</I><BR/><BR/>As far as kink goes, I think you really just need to make an effort to find partners with your interest. Depending on where you are, there may be a kink group that meets on your campus, so you might look into it. Craigslist or similar ads are another possibility, though that's kind of a crap shoot. In any even, whatever kink you're into, you're probably not as alone as you think you are. As far as there being kink equivalents of "gaydar", or subtle ways of cuing it, I'm less sure.<BR/><BR/><I>"I respect one's right to produce, participate in, and partake in pornography, but is there not a gray area of moral ambiguity, where freedom of choice becomes freedom choice within the confines of one's development and the environment within which it occurred?"</I><BR/><BR/>The thing is that this is a truism, but such a broad truth that I'm not sure exactly what its an argument for or against. Yes, of course in any real sense, freedom of choice exists within constraints. And? Yet this is often used as a "gotcha" argument in arguments against the idea that sex work is a choice, that women have agency in a patriarchal society, or whatever else the questioner claims can't really be an authentically free choice. Of course, this presumes that those arguing against X as being freely chosen have made their moral choice independently of similar social pressures and constraints and are therefore have a more "authentic" understanding, which is typically a dubious proposition.<BR/><BR/><I>"Obviously the porn industry isn't responsible because there are checks in place to prevent things like me from occurring; however, theoretically we shouldn't have child smokers, or child drug addicts. I want to blame someone for my having to harmonize what I want to do with what society makes me feel like I need to do, and how things could have been different. Sometimes I feel like I've been inducted into a secret club of pornography and kink, but without my voluntary consent, and now I'm not sure I want to be in anymore."</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I don't think porn "made" you feel any kind of novel desire, but rather made you aware of stuff that was already latent in your sexuality, something that would probably have come up eventually even without exposure to porn. In any event, your sexual choices are your own. If there's something you like that you might be feeling judged for or "abnormal" about, I say, trust your own judgement and fuck what other people might think – they don't have to live in your skin. I'm not saying be completely out about your desires in a socially hostile environment – you need to use your better judgement, obviously, but you don't need to police your desires to conform to what's "normal" (which isn't always the healthiest box of candy, either). If there something that's genuinely troubling you about your desires, I recommend either adjusting, or, worst case, not indulging them, but in any event, that's the kind of thing that's best worked out between you and a, hopefully, kink-friendly therapist.<BR/><BR/><I>"Where I can investigate these questions, if they've already been asked? Is there any literature on these developmental psychological aspects of pornography? On the morality of pornography?"</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, there's plenty of "literature" and "studies" out there, and plenty of ink spilled on the "morality" of pornography, but how good is any of it? This is one of the leading complaints we make on this blog is how criticisms of porn are often based on very bad science, studies that have a tremendous a priori bias, or studies that are simply non-existant. And often these same studies are loudly bandies about by those claiming "overwhelming" evidence that viewing porn causes addiction, psychological damage, and/or social harm.<BR/><BR/>As for the "morality" of porn, it really depends on what your moral framework is to begin with, doesn't it? The problem with just about everything written about the morality of porn has as underlying basis in some fundamental notions of sexual morality that are probably debatable and may or may not be explicitly stated. That's the whole reason the porn wars have been so long-lasting and vicious. Porn is only the "surface" issue around some very deep-seeted attitudes about sex that may be based in long-standing cultural attitudes, religious beliefs, or political ideology. And often the loudest critics of porn are very quick to forget that not everybody shares their particular religion or ideology, or their approach to sexual morality.<BR/><BR/>As for what I'd recommend for readings on sexual ethics, what I'd recommend may or may not answer the questions you're looking for. I suppose "The Ethical Slut" is always a good place to start. Some of the books by Susie Bright or the recent one by Nina Hartley are probably also good introductions to sex-positive ideas, though they may or may not answer the questions your looking for. Going more into basic ethical/philosophical arguments, if you're interested, I'd say have a look at Ellen Willis' and Alan Soble's work.iacbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267608319896053702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-34174668124371176142009-01-25T11:20:00.000-06:002009-01-25T11:20:00.000-06:00N,I'm not sure any of us can answer your questions...N,<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure any of us can answer your questions for you. But here are my opinions, for whatever they are worth.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't think I ever experienced dependency on porn. I have trouble even understanding how someone would prefer pictures to people -- even if someone is greedy and selfish (not saying you are), flesh is warm, people react, etc. For me a big part of the fun of sex is my partner's reaction and the reactions I have to my partner.<BR/><BR/>Porn, while I quite enjoy it, and while it can depict people or activities I can't realistically try, isn't something I can imagine *replacing* the thrill of seeing and feeling my partner respond to the things I do.<BR/><BR/>So... I don't know. I think you have a lot of thinking to do about what's happening to you right now and why, and what you should do about it. I'd suggest discussing it with a counselor of some sort, but I don't know how likely you are to find yourself stuck with the kind of absolutist anti-porner who would try to "end your addiction" rather than help you discover if that's actually the problem.<BR/><BR/>I will say that reading your comment, I see an interest in kink that your partner doesn't share. Only you know the answer to this question: Is it just that you need the kink, and so you're bored with the relationship you have and find yourself turning to porn to see it and think about it?<BR/><BR/>*If* that's the case, and again I don't know if it is or isn't, I don't think there's something odd about you drifting away to porn when your partner expresses repeated disinterest in what you like. *If* that's what's going on, then it's likely you're sexually incompatible rather than addicted to porn.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I tend to think that much of the time, people blame porn for not dealing with their incompatibilities. At the same time, I don't think it's impossible to be addicted to porn (though I don't think it's common; that strikes me as moral panic.)<BR/><BR/>But only you know how these things are really affecting you.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-7003074792005480342009-01-25T02:13:00.000-06:002009-01-25T02:13:00.000-06:00Hi.This may not be the place to ask, but all of yo...Hi.<BR/><BR/>This may not be the place to ask, but all of you seem like articulate objective individuals who know a lot about pornography. I'm a 20-something male college student. I have a girlfriend, I do normal college sorts of things. Currently, I am a handsome and worthy suitor, but when I was young, I was picked on a lot for being scrawny, bookish, and weird. Being a social outcast, I took very easily to pornography - first, late-night scrambled playboy with my friends in the 6th grade, and now to whatever is free and mildly kinky, "strawberry vanilla" as opposed to just "vanilla," as it were.<BR/><BR/>This would be fine, but I am undergoing a strange conflict where I developed a strong dependency upon pornography as an artificial source of sexual love, and now I'm a bit of an emotional island. I have trouble relating to women sexually, and I am drawn to pornography regardless of whether I am in a relationship or not. This has caused problems in one relationship, rightfully so, but now I wonder: Am I wrong to like pornography? Or am I just in need of people who understand it and what it has done to my emotional systems over the past decade? Am I addicted to pornography only insofar as other people around me are not? Is it a legitimate interest, and could I just be a closet kink? If yes, is that because of my early exposure to pornography and how it reset the gain on my emotions?<BR/><BR/>I respect one's right to produce, participate in, and partake in pornography, but is there not a gray area of moral ambiguity, where freedom of choice becomes freedom choice within the confines of one's development and the environment within which it occurred? Obviously the porn industry isn't responsible because there are checks in place to prevent things like me from occurring; however, theoretically we shouldn't have child smokers, or child drug addicts. I want to blame someone for my having to harmonize what I want to do with what society makes me feel like I need to do, and how things could have been different. Sometimes I feel like I've been inducted into a secret club of pornography and kink, but without my voluntary consent, and now I'm not sure I want to be in anymore.<BR/><BR/>Where I can investigate these questions, if they've already been asked? Is there any literature on these developmental psychological aspects of pornography? On the morality of pornography? If I want to thoughtfully and respectfully explore kink in a safe way, are there resources? Or do I just hope that I meet someone who has the same sexual tendencies as myself - an unlikely occurrence. Is there a lingo that exists to let one person know they are in the presence of someone who's into kink, kind of like there was amongst homosexuals in the violently homophobic early days? Thanks.<BR/><BR/>N.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-76274933671610335062008-11-10T14:35:00.000-06:002008-11-10T14:35:00.000-06:00Hello Ernest! Long time no hear from! Will be re...Hello Ernest! Long time no hear from! Will be readinmng you a lot now that I have found you again. Give Mrs. Greene a smooch for me! Don aka polybipolybihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00975061992805413002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-70168242470701805792008-10-15T09:53:00.000-05:002008-10-15T09:53:00.000-05:00I posted my response to this in the wrong thread, ...I posted my response to this in the wrong thread, so I'm reposting it here:<BR/><BR/>Without belaboring the point too much, its not that I think the onus is on the kids, but at the same time, there's just something that strikes me as wrong with these narratives. Basically, its, "I was snooping around looking at stuff that was none of my business and I found something really disturbing to me. I blame my father and pornography."<BR/><BR/>And it seems to me that's misplacing responsibility. The only thing I can think of that should have been done differently is that the father should have locked up his stash better – I agree with Ernest there. But blame her dad for having violent fantasies that he didn't intentionally share with her, or the mere existence of porn and lurid "true crime" magazines that weren't made for kids her age? That's where I see these people putting responsibility, and I think that's wrong.<BR/><BR/>Also, mind you, at the time this story was written, the children in question were adult children and probably should have developed some understanding about the boundaries between themselves and their parents, and hopefully by then that their parents sexual fantasies maybe were never really their business to begin with, unless, of course, the parent in question was sexually abusing them or somehow deliberately unleashing their fantasies on their children.<BR/><BR/>Then again, what Ernest said about maybe there's more going on there than the story is telling may also be the case – I only have the story itself to go on, though.iacbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267608319896053702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-37869834580085351552008-10-14T17:11:00.000-05:002008-10-14T17:11:00.000-05:00Finally published my review of it today and the di...Finally published my review of it today and the discussion afterwards. Ugh.Serpenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15994464113971354381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-87816237755954900762008-10-14T15:37:00.000-05:002008-10-14T15:37:00.000-05:00"But then, as Jensen would have it, women in porn ..."But then, as Jensen would have it, women in porn are particularly exploited as laborers because “they sell the most intimate parts of themselves.” I think Ren and a few others here would have a problem with that “selling of parts” thing. Is that not a statement a Calvinist preacher might have made? "<BR/><BR/>And why yes, I do have a problem with that. The most intimate part of myself is not my tits, ass, or crotch. It's my mind, and that doesn't get sold.<BR/><BR/>I love the ancient (ahem) patriarchal assumption that the part of a woman by which her worth is measured is her crotch. The words may have changed a bit (most intimate!) but the tune is still the same!Renegade Evolutionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17905949172886730262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-44866272233326093592008-10-14T13:44:00.000-05:002008-10-14T13:44:00.000-05:00Yep, I'm with Ernest and Trinity here. Kids snoop...Yep, I'm with Ernest and Trinity here. Kids snoop. It's just part of what kids do, and with Trinity here too, this woman blaming porn for her dads affection for true crime material is...really misplaced.<BR/><BR/>But the whole idea the onus is on *kids* not to go peeking rather than *parents* to keep their erotic materials someplace safe? Hello? What?Renegade Evolutionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17905949172886730262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-37618855414831108272008-10-14T13:26:00.000-05:002008-10-14T13:26:00.000-05:00"That's her experience of what she went through, a..."That's her experience of what she went through, and it does no good to criticize anyone's individual response to whatever that individual has been through. She has her reasons, and while they seem a bit skewed to me, they're her reasons, not ours."<BR/><BR/>THIS. YES. THIS.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-39734186433133390842008-10-14T13:25:00.000-05:002008-10-14T13:25:00.000-05:00Ernest,Yeah, I basically agree with you, but if I ...Ernest,<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I basically agree with you, but if I had some reason to think that my dad liked the police gazette stuff, or even just (as the article hints) that my parents are lying to me about why they collect it, I think it would bother me a lot more.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-70800945623161092462008-10-14T13:22:00.000-05:002008-10-14T13:22:00.000-05:00Not to get sidetracked here, but I think Trinity h...Not to get sidetracked here, but I think Trinity has a strong basic point.<BR/><BR/>Until adulthood, and sometimes even then, kids generally don't want to know anything whatever about their parents' sex lives or sexual interests. The idea of such things is likely to be disturbing to any kid. And as Trinity says, kids snoop around the house as a natural part of exploring their environments.<BR/><BR/>I'm not as concerned as she is about the content of the particular material, as when I was a kid really lurid Police Gazette stuff was out in the open on most newsstands and I just thought it was scary and didn't like it.<BR/><BR/>But you might be surprised to know that I ran onto my dad's Playboy stash when I was pretty young (maybe ten or twelve) and found it a little spooky at first, although then I started looking at the magazines more closely and – this is how weird and geeky I really was as a kid – started reading the articles. They had a lot of great writers back then. And good cartoons too. The whole thing wasn't traumatic, but it was a bit of a shocker, and it did raise questions about my parents that at that age I didn't want answered.<BR/><BR/>So my solution is simple. Just lock that shit up until the kids are out of the house. Not hard to do. Most kids are pretty good at getting into minimum security stashes, but a padlocked box will usually be too much work.<BR/><BR/>As for the case in point, well, I think there's a lot more there than the narrator is telling us, but it's her choice what to tell and how to interpret it. That's her experience of what she went through, and it does no good to criticize anyone's individual response to whatever that individual has been through. She has her reasons, and while they seem a bit skewed to me, they're her reasons, not ours.Ernest Greenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371385468484866133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-47455613075586794422008-10-14T12:04:00.000-05:002008-10-14T12:04:00.000-05:00IACB,I disagree. I don't think young kids really K...IACB,<BR/><BR/>I disagree. I don't think young kids really KNOW when they go looking around that "that over there is the hiding place I don't get to look in if I'm 'respectful of Daddy's sexuality.'" I think you're making kids into little adults here, and that's NOT OKAY.<BR/><BR/>I do think there's radfem boilerplate in the way that story is told, but I REALLY don't think it's out of line for a kid to discover that her dad has a fascination with violence and NOT be confused or hurt by that. I think that's REALLY a stretch, and I don't think it serves sex positive feminists' ends to blame the kid's upsetness on herself or on snooping when she shouldn't. Kids snoop. They just DO. They're developmentally SUPPOSED to explore things.<BR/><BR/>As far as whether that can fuck someone up for life or not, I'm really of two minds. On the one hand, I saw some very disturbing age-inappropriate movies and articles (not porn, but scary/violent stuff, and art involving sexual and violent themes) as a child that scared me and remained etched in my memory for a long time, but those things haven't seriously impacted what I want now or how I conduct myself now. I'd have a few less really scary memories, but I don't think I'd have any less neuroses.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I do think an experience like this person's could have a much more profound impact, because this wasn't just some weird thing in a magazine, this was a collection her father kept, and a secret. Finding it meant finding something out about her father, discovering he was drawn to violence. And... well, I'm going to assume this was a guy who had violent fantasies but kept them strictly separated from real life simply because I don't know any ore about him. But... even if he is just a random person with violent fantasies he'd never act out, how's a young child going to know anything but "Daddy likes it when people get hurt?"<BR/><BR/>I mean, like I said elsewhere, I'm troubled by the idea of kids finding glammy-cute SM porn too, because unless Mom and Dad are ready to explain the context AND THE KID IS MATURE ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT, WHICH SHE WON'T BE IF SHE'S TOO YOUNG, that would be very upsetting too.<BR/><BR/>So... yeah. I do find myself thinking that some people on the anti-porn side read too much into someone's porn use. Like the person who claimed that she knew from the fact that her father had a stash of porn that he found his wife unattractive -- unless she had other indications that they were having difficulties (she may have, I don't know), there's no reason to suspect that.<BR/><BR/>But in this case, I don't think the story is necessarily exaggerated. While I do think that radfems CAN encourage people to focus on things that upset them and make their upset feelings worse, this strikes me as something that would be really upsetting for a kid and therefore might well be harmful. Heck, I think it would be deeply disturbing to many, if not most, adults as well.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-16095137612503920062008-10-14T10:44:00.000-05:002008-10-14T10:44:00.000-05:00Arctic Nina said:"I live in a very small country, ...Arctic Nina said:<BR/><BR/><I>"I live in a very small country, and the radfem politics are currently the ONLY 'feminist' viewpoint available, and they sure haven't made life easy for the 'likes of me' here :("</I><BR/><BR/>I don't want to pry too much, but what country is that?iacbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267608319896053702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-88823442801388054962008-10-14T10:42:00.000-05:002008-10-14T10:42:00.000-05:00Reading the story in that link, it says she discov...Reading the story in that link, it says she discovered a stash of "true crime" magazines and softcore skin magazines. <BR/><BR/>I'm unsympathetic on several levels –<BR/><BR/>1) You really shouldn't go digging through your parents porn stash, any more than parents should thumb through their kids diaries. Of course, I know nosy kids tend to do this, but I think if they find something sinister there, its kind of on them. I'm really a big advocate of kids keeping a respectful distance from their parents sexuality and vice versa.<BR/><BR/>2) She then goes on to blame pornography for shaping her sexuality and for sexual behavior she later came to see as problematic. I guess I have a hard time sympathizing with people who won't take charge of their own sexuality and see themselves as passive victims of media imagery. <BR/><BR/>3) The rest of it is just standard 70s radfem boilerplate – "recovered" memories of sexual abuse, became a radical feminist and lesbian, only then was she able to become orgasmic, etc. Sounds like she went from being a passive recipient of porn to a passive recipient of 70s feminist literature. Did it ever occur to her that you can question and say no to things you see and read?iacbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08267608319896053702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385392963347857134.post-80610236283551718942008-10-14T10:10:00.000-05:002008-10-14T10:10:00.000-05:00IACB:I don't agree with you about that link. I do ...IACB:<BR/><BR/>I don't agree with you about that link. I do think it makes sense that someone would be affected by discovering as a child that her dad's favorite thing to get off to is police photos of real violence.<BR/><BR/>The real reason that link is off point is because police photos *are not porn.* There is no reason to condemn the porn industry for some guy getting his jollies from actual violence. The problem with that guy wasn't that he liked porn, it was that he didn't.Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.com