Monday, July 30, 2007

Oh, this is just priceless...

Ah, a new one...


- Defending pornography, stripping, and/or prostitution (if you send me any of your knee-jerk lame excuses such as "Women freely choose", "Porn reduces rape", "Freedom of expression", or "you pro-censorship anti-sex prude", etc., your e-mails will be ignored -- I will feel sorry for you though, as you are ultimately using those excuses to hide the real defenses that underlies your thoughts such as "my right to jerk off to porn and/or be selfish", etc., and you are giving up on your humanity -- there's nothing more beautiful in this world than being genuinely human). Pornography and prostitution are indefensible. The level of harms done to women and children is way too high! If you want to stupidly defend pornography, there are plenty of forums and blogs for that on the Net. Come back when you're less self-centered! -

- Trying to wrap a defense of pornography, prostitution, and/or stripping in some kind of a "Fuck me" feminism; trying to show "empowerment" where there's none (such e-mails will be ignored). .....

.....-- Blaming the women in pornography, stripping and prostitution. They are not to be held responsible for the harms. The pornographers, the pimps, the johns, and the men who create the demand for pornography (especially the ones who carry on stubbornly using pornography after having read or heard about the harms) are responsible for the harms and proliferation of pornography and the sex industry.

-- Accusing us of being "anti-choice". I and many other feminists realized that women in the sex industry do not have any "real choice" in this society. Most of them have an economic necessity and a history of sexual abuse (There are plenty of studies that prove that -- check on this website). Around about 90% of them would rather leave the sex industry if they had the option. Some already have and decried its abuse (check on this website). Should we protect the right of a small 10% who'd rather stay, the rights of the few women who make a lot of money out of it instead of the rights of the overwhelming majority of prostituted women who never got the chance to make a meaningful choice and are sustaining unbearable violence and injury? I don't think so. So, do not even try to magnify the few isolated cases "of money and empowerment" here and there. It doesn't work.

-- Defending gay or lesbian pornography. Feminists respect gays, lesbians and heterosexuals. However, we believe that ALL forms of PORNOGRAPHY are harmful. This applies to gay prostitution too, for men and boys are harmed within it.

Gee, think if I, a woman in the business went over there and defended it, I'd get "blamed"? Anyone wanna take that bet????


  1. How nice. I'm "respected." Just not my filthy filthy interest in lookin' at pictures of women having sex. Even if they're all made by consenting lesbians. Big Sister Knows Best. ta ever so, really...

  2. I saw that one the other day too, including the page you reposted. She's pretty long on ranting and short on reasoned argument. I love the "come back when you are less self-centered!" part.

    I get the distinct feeling from the writing style that this girl isn't even old enough to legally view porn.

    This page is a hoot (and not just for the spelling errors):

    "Acknowledgements and Dedications for this website


    I'd also like to thank Adam Cohen and Jendi Reiter for their help.


    Finally, I'd like to give a particular thought to my mother who, I think, should get herself out of the Church, as (patriarchal) religions are, I believe, merely another expression of male dominance."

    Um...about your new friend, Jendi....

  3. Oh, yawn, yawn...another MacDworkin wannabe...yawn

    Is it bedtime yet??


  4. "Pornography is central to the oppression of women. Do not be fooled.... Pornography is a huge political plot against women.... The whole man-made pornographic system, the entire brutal circle of child abuse, prostitution, rape and battery, has to be overthrown in order to further women's equality and save empathy in this world..."

    1) Anyone else picture someone shouting on a streetcorner, gesticulating wildly? DO NOT BE FOOLED!

    2) You'd think if it were *central* there'd be a lot more evidence of most violence against women being directly tied to pornography or porn use. You'd think almost every study would show an overwhelming correlation between the two if it were "central."

    This is why I don't so much like theory any more. Just because something is central to your *theory* doesn't mean it's actually central to the problem your theory attempts to explain.

  5. ah, so Adamendi "helped," eh? I was thinking that website looks awfully well put together for something that was apparently introduced this spur of the moment.

  6. and yes, way to establish creds: it's not just "bad for women," it's a PLOT. a PLOT!!



  7. I would like to thank... Robert Jensen (If I hadn't come across the Cruel Edge article on the Net, I wonder if I'd still be asking to myself what's going on in the pornographic world and the society today?),


  8. p.s. could y'all fisk Jensen some more? i heart him so...


  9. Q: You say pornography objectifies women, but doesn't the media also objectifies women? And doesn't pornography objectify men too?

    A: The pornographic imagery has
    invaded the media! That is one of the most prominent aspects of the "pornographized" or "pornified" culture....

    Oh of all the sputter sputter. What, so media wasn't "objectifying" and hence not "sexist" BEFORE porn became as mainstream as it is? Woman, where did you take Feminism 101, anyway? jaysus, at least go look up Pink Think or something, would you??

    and no, that is not my way of saying "bad sparkleponies, bad pink," EITHER. but i mean. no, it's all porn, it's ONLY porn, christ knows...

    god, yeah, must be young; but, depressing. nostalgia is breakfast, apparently.

  10. Belle:

    Ohhh, go find some of your favorite of Bob's works and I'll be Happy to fisk 'em for ya!

  11. ohh. how about this one? I have my own thoughts on his peculiar definition of "masculinity" and what he is and isn't suggesting we "reject," given the blow by blow description of a garden variety sounding porn movie that comes before it...

    or, lordie, this one; maybe trin or Cassandra would like to tackle it, i love the whole Larry Kramer, "let's all be more like lesbians! they are Untainted by Patriarchy, and have Deeper, More Meaningful..."

    or this one. "I am afraid, and you should be too."

    ...actually they kind of all say the same thing, pretty much...

    although this one, not explicitly about pr0n, is enlightening. "I came back to church because I am afraid." Presbyterian, that is, he was raised. Color me shocked...

  12. here's another fun one by some other dude, a Jason Miller, also linked by the new Agin' Prawn site.

    owever, pornographers are enjoying a virtual free ride. There are almost no limits on the depraved garbage they produce and pipe into homes, schools, businesses and libraries via the Internet. For instance, in her book Paul refers to a site called "the Home of the Asshole Milkshake" which "treats" viewers to see how "multiple men can anally penetrate a woman and then force her to drink the ejaculated semen extracted from her own anus."

    This is the point where I can assure you that your moral compass is probably broken beyond repair if you don't see the need for some measure of legal restriction on pornographic activities. Banning child pornography is a nice start. However, the Internet has made a joke of the Supreme Court's decision for each community to determine its own tolerance for obscenity.

    Human beings pay a price for choosing to engage in immoral and self-destructive behaviors. It is critical that as a society, we protect our children and innocent by-standers from sharing in that cost to the extent that we are able.

    If adults want to make and drink semen milkshakes, or watch other people do it, more power to them. But as we do with cigarettes and alcohol, let's tax the hell out of pornographers' products to offset the social costs they create and make it more difficult to access reprehensible filth (like the milkshake example) than simply making a few keystrokes on a computer.

    some website called "Populist America;" the headline links sound leftish but I love how the buzzwords here don't even pretend to try to be substantially different from the RRR ones. "Immoral." "Reprehensible filth." "I'm not a censor, BUT..." "Oo er look at it isn't it disgusting" know, this is the first I, pornified Yay!Porner! have ever heard of the "asshole milkshake," and i could have gone quite happily with never having heard of it, too. Thanks for enlightening me, Jason Miller. I'm still not exactly sure what I'm supposed to do with this; on the one hand, he sez "hey, do what you want;" on the other hand, my moral compass must be broken if I'm not as Outraged! as he is. So, not "censorship," just...what? Limits? That -aren't- censorship? Because they're disgusting. Hokay.

    what a fucking loon. yo, as per alcohol, dunno if you noticed, but Prohibition? didn't work. and i hardly think "asshole milkshakes" are as popular as a beer, your own fascination notwithstanding. and, there is no such thing as "secondhand semen," yeah?

    ...looking at his other pieces, he sounds like another leftwing Christian. which is annoying; I -want- to like these people better...but, geez, while it's an improvement on the Radical Theocratic Right, I'm still not exactly overwhelmed with enthusiasm for Temperance 2.0, here.

  13. oh for---and yet another link from the "no fundies please" Anti Porn website:


    and, it's collected under the mental health library, which is as far as I know a nonpartisan resource for various mental health articles (although apparently they're not too stringent about peer review or nothin'); but, this page is entitled

    "LDS Resources on Pornography."

    Okay, is there some other LDS besides "Latter Day Saints?" There might be; but couple that with the "Morality in Media" plug and such winners as "Influences of Rock Music Porn" with appeals to such luminaries as George Will--

    seriously, do these "no, really, we have no truck with the Right Wing" people even read what they link to? or do they just go, "right, anti-porn, no giant cross and 'atheists are goin' to hell' right on the front page=OTAY!"


  14. Belle, I shall conduct a proper fisking of these fine examples with due haste!

  15. Sorry, Belle, but I've already spent countless bandwidth, both at Nina's forum and my own blog dissecting Bob Jensen's unique brand of pseudo-leftist crap:

    Thread at Nina Hartley's forum

    Thread at the SmackChron

    Another post at the SmackChron

    Still another thread from Nina's forum

    Another fisking of Jensen from moi

    Still another fisking of Jensen from moi

    And there's so much more where that came from, too.

    Of course, if you really need it, I could go back and whack him upside his head again...figuratively speaking, of course.



  16. And of course, I wouldn't stop anyone else from playing Whack-The-Pseudo=Leftist-PsychoPrude-Professor, either....since Ren's felt his wrath as much as I have.

    Take no prisoners.


  17. "...she's 27.


    Wow – I genuinely thought high-school age.

  18. "
    So, how can we explain the paradox? People typically do not openly endorse cruelty or the degradation of women. Yet just as those features of pornography are more extensive and intense than ever, graphic sexually explicit material is more widely accepted than ever. How can a culture embrace images that violate its stated values? Wouldn't a society that purports to be civilized reject sexual material that becomes evermore dismissive of the humanity of women? There are two potential explanations."

    How can we?

    Maybe that, y'know, the magical calming properties of civilization get annoying sometimes, and having consensual BDSM or rough sex and/or watching movies (whether BDSMish/gonzo porn or violent Hollywood offings) can allow us to vent some of those dark or cruel desires without doing actual harm.

    Not that BJ would like me saying so, no precious.